Crew Members Head of health and safety : Ben Moss-Woodward – Cmdr Eid LeWeise Chief Archivist : Colin Ford – Cmdr phoenix_dfire Chief Bar Steward : Grant Woolcott – Cmdr Psykokow (In)Human Resources Director : Cmdr Shan
Crew Members Base Commander / Cider Supplier : Cmdr Pom
No matter if you’ve been playing for five minutes or five years, there’s always something that everyone knows except for you. In this video Ghost Giraffe highlights some tips that we didn’t know about until recently!
Ambassador Arithon who runs the Elite Dangerous Blog as well as creating his awesome blueprints is asking for help creating a Vehicle Codex
The intention is to have a bible of Elite vehicles (not just flyable ships) with the most complete information anywhere. I need to know the speed (in m/s) armour and shields (in MJ) for the four skimmers, so I can finish off the Core Dynamics section. I did try racing a skimmer to clock its speed in my SLF, but that wasn’t accurate and the skimmer tended to fly in circles.
The Anti-Thargoid League are planning a mass assault on a couple of Medusa Class Thargoids on February the 3rd. For those interested, pop along to the discord (Discord Link) and help Cmdr Glutteny Fang.
Crew Members Station Commander : Allen Stroud Director of Pest Control : Ashley Devine – DrToxic Head of health and safety : Ben Moss-Woodward – Cmdr Eid LeWeise Chief Archivist : Colin Ford – Cmdr phoenix_dfire Chief Bar Steward : Grant Woolcott – Cmdr Psykokow (In)Human Resources Director : Shan – Cmdr Shanaeri Space Loach Mouthpiece : Sandro Sammarco
Main Discussion Crime and Punishment with Sandro Sammarco
This is a snapshot of the design process and thinking and is not representative of what may actually be delivered
Design principles behind C&P
What is the philosophy behind the C&P design? You have already mentioned it is to simplify, but more specifically is it to prevent certain sorts of play(if so what?), discourage other sorts of play, bring people back to open or to improve the criminal experience?
Two factors, There’s the simplification aspect. It’s not to re-invent the wheel.
We just want to shore up the consequences, and make them harder to avoid and more robust.
Not trying to please everyone, It’s not to “attack” a way of playing, discourage or encourage just to make it better and support the original intentions.
All roles need to be as fun as possible, just not equal in challenge.
What does success look like? How will Frontier measure how successful the changes have been in an empirical way?
Empirical success is that criminals still exist and accept consequences of their actions. Combat logging, Ramming etc cannot be fully solved by C&P and will need the karma system to address further.
Measured and reasoned Feedback is essential to measuring success, especially during these feedback phases
How close do you think you are to meeting those objectives at a design level?
Lots of excellent feedback and has “already” paid it’s way. Feedback has already identified gaps and improvements are being incorporated based on player feedback. So great progress has been made, and it’s probably got another couple of weeks.
Realising no ETA etc, will these changes come all at once or be phased over the beyond updates? E.g at frontier expo the ATR was mentioned for Q1
Likely to be a big bang launch in Q1. No ETA etc etc though
Lots of bravado re:ATR… Not going to be true for everyone. Superpowered but not insta-kill. They can bend the rules, not break them.
Imagine a fully engineered ship That’s the base level. For example, A cascade or drag muntion style beam laser..
The higher the notoriety the more intense the ATR response. They will aim to take out an individual and will be able to defend themselves
ATR may be able to be killed, but will keep coming and coming. The question it will ask the player is “How long do you want to stay around until you die”
Ways in which ATR can chase you across systems in the same faction are being investigated.
Impact on Community Questions
Do you think certain ways players play the game has historically been harmful to both the community and the number of players who now play or want to buy the game. If so, specifically, how will these changes improve this?
It’s a conundrum. Historically and intentionally the game has been left open to player interpretation and try to avoid judgement, That’s not to say there are no consequences and the game will respond to that
There is also a covenant between player and developer where the player has to abide by the rules. And we accept it’s not the full picture, but it should be an improvement from where we are now.
It’s a balance between locking down the game so it’s no fun or opening it too much.
Not a huge amount of criminal players with huge amount of money, but data says being attacked and killed in open is rarer than the perception.
Previously the fines have been avoided, with the new system the impact will be higher because they are a lot harder to avoid and so eventually will have an effect.
Additional fines will increase the rebuy penalty so it all adds up. Other systems such as karma will also affect things
Player choice, open, Private Group or solo are all equally valid.
Can you explain how the new bounty hunting mechanic could work. What’s to stop friends kill trading or even selling their bounty for real money outside of game if the values become significant?
The bounty that is claimed and the rebuy bounty are different things. So while bounty hunting will be made more lucrative, it will be balanced to avoid this.
The concept of reducing a victim’s rebuy and increasing the attackers is at the moment fairly compelling as it increases the sense of justice.
Will any fines or bounties be commander based, rather than ship based(e.g interstellar bounties)
It’s an interesting debate. But there proba”thye devprebly wouldn’t be. One of the reasons why it’s on a ship is because it opens the player up to other professions, whilst still adding a penalty
interstellar bounties will be pretty horrifying, so probably no need for pilots federation bounties. But balancing will be needed.
The current system differentiates between player murders and NPC murders. The proposed system seems to dilute this distinction, why the change?
It’s felt that the consequences for ship destruction should be the same. It’s nicer it’s simpler whilst still recognising there needs to be a sense of justice for the player.
The hope is this system will reduce the instances of combat logging
Impact on Consensual PvP, player events, and criminality as a profession etc
Any chance of having CQC style arenas/pvp centric mega-ships etc in anarchy systems to assist in consensual PvP. I.e give consensual PvP outside of CQC some love?
Should be possible using existing assets although some assets are already in place already. So could be looked at, where players make their own rules .
Piracy and PvP in general have been mentioned as needing improvement. Is smuggling on the list also?
Smuggling is a core role in the game, but is being reviewed as part of beyond. They would like to be improved in two ways. The black market and mechanical changes to improve gameplay.
Other factors are involved in how successful your smuggling is such as your in system rep and how ‘prestigious” your ship is
How will player run events, such a demolition derbies be affected by these changes(frequent ramming, getting the station annoyed on purpose just for funsies. etc)
It’s fun seeing the crazy events players come up with. Report crimes off and anarchy systems will still work and should not be much difference. But will need to be looked at in case by case basis.
One can imagine how crimes are not affected in wings, could also apply in squadrons….
Possible exploits, loopholes etc questions
How are you going to prevent mischievous players “getting in the way of other ships’ weapons in order to get the other a bounty etc?
While the system is harsher. The friendly fire threshold will be increased, as as a new reckless weapons offense which will impose a fine, not a bounty.
Is there a potential issue in having a nice collection of freshly clean(and freshly poorer) players in a detention centre that are just ripe to being killed again and again in a place where other ‘naughty’ players have been sent?
Fastest possible ATR response will be present, may be worthwhile having instant attack function while being in your own instance until you jump away. In other words security in the detention system will be tight.
What would happen if you filled a detention ship up to the max number of ships you can store there(e.g filled it with sidewinders)
It’s an interesting idea. In theory there are several solutions from upping the limit, forced moving of ships all the way to giving the player a choice of what ship they want to lose to make room
For the first time perhaps(outside of the BGS). The size of my credit balance and rate in which I can earn credits can now affect others players. Is this a worry?
It’s an interesting question, that is quite a moral conundrum, but in general punishments based on assets
Please could you explain again the power play changes, they seemed more complex than those currently in place.
Accidentally shooting before a scan ends no hull damage. I.E. Shield Dmg Only. – Fine
Accidentally shooting before a scan ends with hull damage -Fine
Accidentally ramming a ship without destroying it – fine maybe bounty
Shooting a clean/non scanned ship with and inflicting hull damage – bounty
Killing skimmers – fine… bounty.. fine
Shooting people in an SRV – all of the above 😉
Smuggling illegal goods -fine
Loitering or docking without permission – All of the above 😉
Killing a clean NPC as part of a mission -Bounty
Carrying wanted passenger – Bounty
Killing clean player not PP aligned – Jail
Killing multiple clean players not PP aligned – All of the above 😉
Killing the same player repeatedly within a defined time period – All of the above 😉
Crew Members Director of Pest Control : Ashley Devine – DrToxic Head of health and safety : Ben Moss-Woodward – Cmdr Eid LeWeise Chief Archivist : Colin Ford – Cmdr phoenix_dfire Chief Bar Steward : Grant Woolcott – Cmdr Psykokow (In)Human Resources Director : Shan – Cmdr Shanaeri
INRA Base Mega Thread – Stay away from the file dipping controversy. Also players have found what looks like the remains of a Thargoid scout at the base where maybe the Mycoid virus was used to test . base is Klatt Enterprises at Alnath A2 AA 4.0167 133.54
DeskPins is an open source application that allows you to “pin” a window so that it remains “on top” of your Elite any full-screen borderless window (does not work with true-full screen)… Perfect for that trip to Hutton Orbital!