Aired 21 Nov 2017
Download the episode directly from here.
Station Commander : Allen Stroud
Director of Pest Control : Ashley Devine – DrToxic
Head of health and safety : Ben Moss-Woodward – Cmdr Eid LeWeise
Chief Archivist : Colin Ford – Cmdr phoenix_dfire
Chief Bar Steward : Grant Woolcott – Cmdr Psykokow
(In)Human Resources Director : Shan – Cmdr Shanaeri
Space Loach Mouthpiece : Sandro Sammarco
- Development News
- Newsletter 201
- Main Discussion Crime and Punishment with Sandro Sammarco
This is a snapshot of the design process and thinking and is not representative of what may actually be delivered
Design principles behind C&P
What is the philosophy behind the C&P design? You have already mentioned it is to simplify, but more specifically is it to prevent certain sorts of play(if so what?), discourage other sorts of play, bring people back to open or to improve the criminal experience?
- Two factors, There’s the simplification aspect. It’s not to re-invent the wheel.
- We just want to shore up the consequences, and make them harder to avoid and more robust.
- Not trying to please everyone, It’s not to “attack” a way of playing, discourage or encourage just to make it better and support the original intentions.
- All roles need to be as fun as possible, just not equal in challenge.
What does success look like? How will Frontier measure how successful the changes have been in an empirical way?
- Empirical success is that criminals still exist and accept consequences of their actions. Combat logging, Ramming etc cannot be fully solved by C&P and will need the karma system to address further.
- Measured and reasoned Feedback is essential to measuring success, especially during these feedback phases
How close do you think you are to meeting those objectives at a design level?
- Lots of excellent feedback and has “already” paid it’s way. Feedback has already identified gaps and improvements are being incorporated based on player feedback. So great progress has been made, and it’s probably got another couple of weeks.
Realising no ETA etc, will these changes come all at once or be phased over the beyond updates? E.g at frontier expo the ATR was mentioned for Q1
- Likely to be a big bang launch in Q1. No ETA etc etc though
- Lots of bravado re:ATR… Not going to be true for everyone. Superpowered but not insta-kill. They can bend the rules, not break them.
- Imagine a fully engineered ship That’s the base level. For example, A cascade or drag muntion style beam laser..
- The higher the notoriety the more intense the ATR response. They will aim to take out an individual and will be able to defend themselves
- ATR may be able to be killed, but will keep coming and coming. The question it will ask the player is “How long do you want to stay around until you die”
- Ways in which ATR can chase you across systems in the same faction are being investigated.
Impact on Community Questions
Do you think certain ways players play the game has historically been harmful to both the community and the number of players who now play or want to buy the game. If so, specifically, how will these changes improve this?
- It’s a conundrum. Historically and intentionally the game has been left open to player interpretation and try to avoid judgement, That’s not to say there are no consequences and the game will respond to that
- There is also a covenant between player and developer where the player has to abide by the rules. And we accept it’s not the full picture, but it should be an improvement from where we are now.
- It’s a balance between locking down the game so it’s no fun or opening it too much.
- Not a huge amount of criminal players with huge amount of money, but data says being attacked and killed in open is rarer than the perception.
- Previously the fines have been avoided, with the new system the impact will be higher because they are a lot harder to avoid and so eventually will have an effect.
- Additional fines will increase the rebuy penalty so it all adds up. Other systems such as karma will also affect things
- Player choice, open, Private Group or solo are all equally valid.
Can you explain how the new bounty hunting mechanic could work. What’s to stop friends kill trading or even selling their bounty for real money outside of game if the values become significant?
- The bounty that is claimed and the rebuy bounty are different things. So while bounty hunting will be made more lucrative, it will be balanced to avoid this.
- The concept of reducing a victim’s rebuy and increasing the attackers is at the moment fairly compelling as it increases the sense of justice.
Will any fines or bounties be commander based, rather than ship based(e.g interstellar bounties)
- It’s an interesting debate. But there proba”thye devprebly wouldn’t be. One of the reasons why it’s on a ship is because it opens the player up to other professions, whilst still adding a penalty
- interstellar bounties will be pretty horrifying, so probably no need for pilots federation bounties. But balancing will be needed.
The current system differentiates between player murders and NPC murders. The proposed system seems to dilute this distinction, why the change?
- It’s felt that the consequences for ship destruction should be the same. It’s nicer it’s simpler whilst still recognising there needs to be a sense of justice for the player.
- The hope is this system will reduce the instances of combat logging
Impact on Consensual PvP, player events, and criminality as a profession etc
Any chance of having CQC style arenas/pvp centric mega-ships etc in anarchy systems to assist in consensual PvP. I.e give consensual PvP outside of CQC some love?
- Should be possible using existing assets although some assets are already in place already. So could be looked at, where players make their own rules .
Piracy and PvP in general have been mentioned as needing improvement. Is smuggling on the list also?
- Smuggling is a core role in the game, but is being reviewed as part of beyond. They would like to be improved in two ways. The black market and mechanical changes to improve gameplay.
- Other factors are involved in how successful your smuggling is such as your in system rep and how ‘prestigious” your ship is
How will player run events, such a demolition derbies be affected by these changes(frequent ramming, getting the station annoyed on purpose just for funsies. etc)
- It’s fun seeing the crazy events players come up with. Report crimes off and anarchy systems will still work and should not be much difference. But will need to be looked at in case by case basis.
- One can imagine how crimes are not affected in wings, could also apply in squadrons….
Possible exploits, loopholes etc questions
How are you going to prevent mischievous players “getting in the way of other ships’ weapons in order to get the other a bounty etc?
- While the system is harsher. The friendly fire threshold will be increased, as as a new reckless weapons offense which will impose a fine, not a bounty.
Is there a potential issue in having a nice collection of freshly clean(and freshly poorer) players in a detention centre that are just ripe to being killed again and again in a place where other ‘naughty’ players have been sent?
- Fastest possible ATR response will be present, may be worthwhile having instant attack function while being in your own instance until you jump away. In other words security in the detention system will be tight.
What would happen if you filled a detention ship up to the max number of ships you can store there(e.g filled it with sidewinders)
- It’s an interesting idea. In theory there are several solutions from upping the limit, forced moving of ships all the way to giving the player a choice of what ship they want to lose to make room
For the first time perhaps(outside of the BGS). The size of my credit balance and rate in which I can earn credits can now affect others players. Is this a worry?
- It’s an interesting question, that is quite a moral conundrum, but in general punishments based on assets
Please could you explain again the power play changes, they seemed more complex than those currently in place.
- Accidentally shooting before a scan ends no hull damage. I.E. Shield Dmg Only. – Fine
- Accidentally shooting before a scan ends with hull damage -Fine
- Accidentally ramming a ship without destroying it – fine maybe bounty
- Shooting a clean/non scanned ship with and inflicting hull damage – bounty
- Killing skimmers – fine… bounty.. fine
- Shooting people in an SRV – all of the above 😉
- Smuggling illegal goods -fine
- Loitering or docking without permission – All of the above 😉
- Killing a clean NPC as part of a mission -Bounty
- Carrying wanted passenger – Bounty
- Killing clean player not PP aligned – Jail
- Killing multiple clean players not PP aligned – All of the above 😉
- Killing the same player repeatedly within a defined time period – All of the above 😉
- Community Corner
- Meet the Pilot trying to talk to Thargoids
- Issue 3 of Sagittarius Eye is now out http://www.sagittariuseyes.com/issue-3.html
- They have a nice article on Raxxla
- First twin commander Basilisk kill. CMDR’s Tainted Wanderer & Cncmaster took roughly an hour to take the ship down and described the fight as “downright incredible”
- The Physics of Elite Dangerous 2: Gravity and Planets
- The Trucker Dr Eros Madelung has done it again with an excellent video getting us all down as he talks about mass, density, gravity and the roche limit.
- Dr Kaii updates his ED profiler App.
- CQC Discord – For the Discerning Commander who likes a bit of CQC actionShoutouts
- Lavecon 2018 is 8th – 10th June
- Cmdr Starion is taking part in Movember for the 4th time mobro.co/gerarddanks